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John E. Mack - 2

powerful these crossover experiences are in a material sense.

David: Are there any people among the sample that you’ve worked with who have had both a classic alien abduction experience and a psychedelic experience with a hallucinogenic drug or plant?

John: I know people who’ve relived alien encounter experiences, or lived alien encounter experiences, under psychedelics.
David: Has anyone ever had the classic alien abduction experience while they were tripping on LSD or a psychedelic plant?
John: Pretty much so. You might want to take a look at Rick Strassman’s book.

David: You mean DMT: The Sprit Molecule?
John: Yes. He has a whole section in there where he compares the DMT experiences and my cases. Some of the similarities are quite striking.

David: I understand that there’s a lot of similarities, but has anybody ever had the classic abduction experience while they were tripping?

John: Pretty close to it.

David: Really? Of going up in a beam of light, being in the ship, that whole scenario?

John: Yeah, and again, how literally do you take it? The experience can be very real, but you’re not going get what Budd had, which is where you have a physically objectifiable event happening, like people on the Brooklyn bridge outside the buildings seeing a person accompanied by little beings going out a window. A full-fledged alien encounter experience under psychedelics (which I have seen, maybe not exactly the same, but pretty close to it) can be very much like the actual experience where there might be something observable, like a person actually floating out a window, or with marks on their bodies. Its interesting that they can be so similar in one way yet not another. I mean, obviously the person wasn’t taken any place in the physical literal sense, except in consciousness, and in the other situation they may well have been physically moved. And yet the experience so similar. I find that interesting.

David: Have you personally ever had a psychedelic experience, and if so, how has it influenced your perspective on science and life?

John: Yeah, I’ve had psychedelic experiences, as have many people who don’t necessarily want to talk about it. What psychedelic experiences do is remove the veil. They remove the barrier between yourself and the surround, so that you experience a much more powerful vibrational connection with the world around you. You experience something like, I guess, what people call the divine, or a basic creative force. It opens you to that. Many people who have moved into what is called the new paradigm, or the new world view, have, at some point, been jump-started by psychedelic experiences. I mean, you could do a study of that if you wanted. I think the resistance to psychedelics in the culture is not because they’re medically threatening so much-I guess people could have bad trips-but because, by taking away the veil of socialization that lies on top of our true selves, people then become openhearted, open-minded, think for themselves, and are less likely to be programmable by the conventional media or the socioeconomic system we live in.

It isn’t like a conspiracy, but there’s an intuition in the established collective that psychedelics are threatening to it, because, as I say, people that have opened their hearts, minds and souls through that means-or any other means that undoes the programming that we’ve all taken in-begin to question, think for themselves, don’t accept the political lies or the inequalities that exist. Or they feel more connected with the environment, so they find viscerally abhorrent the whole deterioration of the environment, and the commercial callousness that is at the root of that. So I think they’re very threatening. I don’t work in this area, but I’m interested in the resistance to psychedelics as a cultural or political phenomenon. And, at this point, I’m persuaded of their power.

David: Have you personally ever had any kind of encounter with a being that you believed to be from another world?
John: No.

David: What advice would you give to someone who finds themselves being abducted by aliens?

John: Oh, I don’t know. There have been books written about how to stop the experiences. People say, “I don’t want this, go away,” and that works sometimes. It does sometimes stop it. It’s a funny question. I don’t know what to do with it. Sometimes the people are angry, they want the beings to go away, and some people are able to make them stop. I tell people to just kind of go with the energy of your consciousness, and just flow with it. But I’m never there, so I don’t know what to

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